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Muredrum
02-27-2005, 01:35 AM
In a dark match
Lone Star & Carnage defeated LTP & Diablo & 2 other lucha guys

Rukus defeated Human tornando and phonix star (great match)

Luke defeated Babi Slymm

Supreme defeated cyanide (Messiah came in and beat up supreme, then at the end pogo the clown beat up cyanide)

"The Santino Bros." Kaos & Mongol defeated The Young Bucks

Halloween, Damien 666 ,Rey Mysterio defeated Sr"Los Dynamita"
Cien Caras, Universo 2000, Mascara 2000 I think ????

The Messiah Lost to Psicosis

And I left earley I dont know who won the main event. ????

there was about 2,000 people there.

decent show



:D

Muredrum
02-27-2005, 01:39 AM
O yeah Vic beat Angel :D

RedEyedBandit
02-27-2005, 02:04 AM
2,000. Holy shit.

Scrub
02-27-2005, 02:06 AM
Huge crowd turnout for FCW's debut show. Totally unexpected. The lower section was completely full and the balcony section was half full. As we were riding down the 10 East, we saw searchlights in the sky, and I jokingly said, "Heh, I bet you the searchlights are for FCW!" And low and behold, what do I see outside the Grand Olympic Auditorium? Not only do a see searchlights, but I see long ass lines wrapping around the GOA. Very nuts! Mascara vendors all over the place. And what better way to complement the lucha swag than LA hot dog vendors! Bacon wrapped death dogs are one of the biggest draws for me to come to LA. Someone needs to make a franchise out of this! The sound of "hotdoghotdoghotdoghotdoghotdoghotdog" as I walk to the GOA is a soothing sound.

The Poubelle Twins (!!!) w/ LVV promoter Liz Flame and Rocky Romero were in attendance.

The dark match was very messy. A lot of the participants seemed very confused, as was I. Nikki came out with Carnage and Lonestar and got in all her offense, which consists of your standard US Woman's babyface spots (queceadora bulldog, ranas, etc.) The FMLL guys were not good. The luchadore with the Darth Maul mask didn't want to cooperate with anyone. The other lucha guy (I think it may have been Shamu... not sure) literally dropped this one dude right on his head with a legit ganso bomb, which was supposed to be some type of rana. Nobody wanted to bump for anyone in that match. I think "LTP" aka Mini Shelton Benjamin and Diablo could have had a better match with "The Young Bucks" aka the newest and last set of Gallineros from Revolution Pro. Mini Shelton and Diablo show potential.

Ruckus/Human Tornado/Phoenix Star was an out of control spotfest. Probably one of the best matches of the night, with nutty spots left and right from all competitors.

And it is really amazing to see Hijo Del Santo flying all over the ring at his age. He moves so quick for a ring veteran. And as always, it was obvious he was the main draw for this show, as the crowd was going nuts for Santo. Santo unmasked Super Parka once again, as SP disrespects the initial instance where Santo unmasked him in Tijuana by continuing to wear the mask. At one point though, SP had Santo's mask half way off, revealing the back of his head exposing his hair. That was as close as it was to coming off though, as Santo rallied back to fend off the Rudos, with the help of Mascara Sagrada. Santo = :eek:

PhantomPretender
02-27-2005, 02:13 AM
2000, thats insane.

Props to FCW for having a great debut show. It would be nice to have a great local powerhouse promotion around here as SoCal definitely deserves some attention.

Any word on their next show or anything like that? I might have to check out one of these shows someday.

Daniel in San Diego
02-27-2005, 02:53 AM
I think the estimate of 2,000 fans is a bit low. As Scrub stated the entire lower section was full and from my seat it appeared as though there were quite a few fans in the upper level as well. While I was standing in line with a buddy of mine who is a SoCal promoter he said that 3,500 tickets had already been sold and there was still a long line of people waiting to buy tickets. I suppose we will have to wait until the official attendance is released by FCW. Overall it was a good show although I think the predominantly Latino crowd (who no doubt came out to see El Hijo del Santo) was somewhat turned off by some of the hardcore stuff that happened just before intermission. I heard a lot of boos and someone in my section yelled out "No page 10 dolares para estas pendejadas" - which loosely translated means "I didn't pay $10 bucks for this foolishness".

Scrub
02-27-2005, 02:54 AM
2000, thats insane.

Props to FCW for having a great debut show. It would be nice to have a great local powerhouse promotion around here as SoCal definitely deserves some attention.
Perhaps a little more than 2000. But don't get it twisted. It was obvious that this was a lucha crowd with Santo being the obvious draw. For those who were around and remember, Azteca drew crazy numbers just like FCW did tonight, strictly because it was a lucha crowd, and the promotion of the show (newspapers and radio ads) was on point. If you advertise, they will come.

Scrub
02-27-2005, 02:57 AM
I heard a lot of boos and someone in my section yelled out "No page 10 dolares para estas pendejadas" - which loosely translated means "I didn't pay $10 bucks for this foolishness".
I heard that too. Alotta fans in my section were turned off by the undercard sans the three way spotfest. The fans in attendance wanted lucha. I heard some "aburrido" cat calls y "pinche _________" during anything that wasn't lucha. They were nice though, and popped for the nicer looking stuff in the ring and the high risk dives to the floor. The uninspired brawling, stalling, and and hardcore got bad reactions from the crowd, mainly the people in the balcony.

Daniel in San Diego
02-27-2005, 03:23 AM
Scrub,
You are definitely right. The fans wanted lucha. When I got in line a little before 7, everyone around me was speaking Spanish and I knew they were here for one reason and one reason only, they wanted to see a lucha show. It was nice to hear the cheers and claps for some of the non lucha guys. I thought Vic Grimes got over with the fans quite well with some of his off the top rope moves.

A few notes to add to the quick results above. After the six man lucha match between Los Hermanos Dinamitas and La Familia de Tijuana, Chucho Reyes aka Mascara Ano 2000 issued a challenge for a hair vs hair match. Not sure if anything will come of it, since Misterio Sr. turned him down. Also after Kaos and Mongol defeated The Young Bucks, they issued a challenge to any lucha guys in the back. Damian and Halloween came out to answer the call, but not much more than words were exchanged. Hopefully this will lead to a match between the Santino Brothers and Mexico's Most Wanted at the next show. It's always nice when promotions have storylines that we can follow from show to show.

Scrub
02-27-2005, 03:29 AM
Like Daniel said, along with Grimes, I also felt the crowd was very much into Angel and his gimmick.

TheDuckman
02-27-2005, 07:10 AM
I'm relatively sure I had more fun seeing Titus at the Brea Improv ast night. Hoorah for martinis and such.

shyboy13
02-27-2005, 10:06 AM
Honestly, the 2000 fan approximation is probably VERY VERY low. There was more like 10,000 fans. The venue was almost sold out and I think it holds like 12,000 people for boxing. Anyway, if anyone knows the capacity for a boxing event just multiply that number by about .85 (85%) to get a good approximation of the attendance that night. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

The dark match was very messy. A lot of the participants seemed very confused, as was I. Nikki came out with Carnage and Lonestar and got in all her offense, which consists of your standard US Woman's babyface spots (queceadora bulldog, ranas, etc.) The FMLL guys were not good. The luchadore with the Darth Maul mask didn't want to cooperate with anyone. The other lucha guy (I think it may have been Shamu... not sure) literally dropped this one dude right on his head with a legit ganso bomb, which was supposed to be some type of rana. Nobody wanted to bump for anyone in that match. I think "LTP" aka Mini Shelton Benjamin and Diablo could have had a better match with "The Young Bucks" aka the newest and last set of Gallineros from Revolution Pro. Mini Shelton and Diablo show potential.

I never ever insult wrestlers because I am just a fan who does not really know what it is like being in the ring. I have way too much respect for what these men do. I love and thank these men for putting their lives on the line for little pay just to entertain people like me. Wrestlers are the toughest and among the greatest atheletes in the world. That said, I have to really agree with the above quote. That luchador with the red really sucked. He did not want to cooperate with anyone. He did not sell any moves at all and pretended like nothing hurt him. Every time he was in the ring he kept messing things up. When he was supposed to fall to the ground he would roll on the ground in slow motion making the move look rediculous. he dropped that little black kid on his head potentially ending his life because he did not want to cooperate with the huricanrana. That was unprofessonal and disgusting. That man does not belong in a ring if his stubborness is going to put peoples lives in jeopardy. Yes, I never insult wrestlers and their performances but that guy should never step foot in the ring if he is going to act like that.

Surprisingly, that was a great card overall.

WaaTafuLiam
02-27-2005, 10:47 AM
And what better way to complement the lucha swag than LA hot dog vendors! Bacon wrapped death dogs are one of the biggest draws for me to come to LA. Someone needs to make a franchise out of this! The sound of "hotdoghotdoghotdoghotdoghotdoghotdog" as I walk to the GOA is a soothing sound.

That was the highlight of my evening.In addition, the stage, lights and sound were fantastic. The crowd was fired up at the beginning, then I think the dark match killed it. I don't think the crowd hit the opening volume 'til the main event. I was happy for all the guys who don't normally get to work in front of such a big crowd. I do agree with the 3,500 figure, maybe even 4,000. As far as I know, the compacity is 5,500, but I heard that about 20 years ago. Why was Cyanide's dad, or whoever he is, throwing money around at the start of the show? There was quite a few people outside under the freeway bridge who could have used that money. Oh yeah, the wrestling.
I only liked the three way with Tornado, Phoenix Star, and Ruckus. I like lucha sometimes, but it just didn't work for me this evening. Is it me, or did most of the matches spend too much time working the crowd for pops until the actual wrestling started? Sorry, but it got on my nerves.
Now that I know what to expect at a show like this, would I go again? Sure, I would. I like the place, the crowd(mi raza, and the gringos I sat with), and of course, hotdoghotdoghotdoghotdoghotdog !(with everything !)
As a goofy little side note, when I was in the john during the Santinos match, the crowd popped for something, and a little kid started crying to his father because he thought he was missing Santo. (Awwwwwww)

Daniel in San Diego
02-27-2005, 10:55 AM
The attendance figure is driving me crazy so I looked it up on www.grandoly.com It says that the upper level has 3,949 seats and for the ring setup the lower level has 3,081 seats. So that adds up to 7,030 seats.

Masked-Informant
02-27-2005, 11:22 AM
Congrats to everyone at FCW. I for one didn't believe that a mixed card, lucha libre and non-lucha libre talent, would draw. However, once showtime came around, the place had a very good crowd. I heard the place now holds 7,500, so my guess would be around 3,500 to 4,000 in attendence?
That said, I think it was clear that it was a lucha crowd. With the exception of the usual Cyanide family/fans, and the "Supreme" chants, I thought the crowd but kinda dead for the non-lucha matches. Not that the matches weren't worthy of applause, just that a lucha libre crowd.... wants to see lucha libre.
I thought the show ran a bit too long. By the semi-main match the crowd was just wanting to see Santo! Psicossis and Messiah had a cool match with the crowd getting back into the show. By the time Santo walked out, I think the crowd had gotten its' second wind because that place went nuts. I thought it was a nice way to end the show, with a crowd just as loud at the end as it was at the start of the show.
Big props to all the FCW crew for the balls to put a show at the GOA. Over the years I've seen many feds put on their last show at the GOA. I hope FCW will change that trend. They had a good product last night that with a little tunning (length of show, more lucha talent, etc) I think will continue to draw. Congrats FCW!!

Koldplayerz
02-27-2005, 11:56 AM
I'm glad I attended the show. Had a great time, and FCW HAS TO continue to book lucha wrestlers and continue to advertise to the latin communities or their attendance will bomb.

For a promotions first run at the olympic, it blew away everything XPW had previously done production wise. (And attendance wise)

Hannible25
02-27-2005, 02:11 PM
Message from Less Than Perfect(LTP) AKA Lil' Shelton Benjamin:

"I just want to thank all the wrestlers who came up to me after I was dropped on my skull. My neck is fine, everything is fine. I'm just hurting a lil bit, but I'm anxious to get back in the ring soon. Thanks"

I was backstage when it happened, there wasn't a single guy in the back who wasn't absolutely pissed over what had happened. Theres a small chance anybody will ever see that guy work FCW again. Thanks for your concern. he's fine.

Scrub
02-27-2005, 02:17 PM
That's great news. Glad to hear LTP is OK. I didn't mean to call him "Lil Shelton Benjamin" either. It's just that nobody announced any of the names in the dark match. No disrespect meant. Anyhow, great to see he's doing OK and that's he's not dead. That was pretty scary.

Jay Cal
02-27-2005, 04:50 PM
I guess a lot of people are eating their words. Its good to hear Lucha will outdraw just about anyone (wrestling-wise) in L.A. I look hope FCW made good money. It'd be nice to have a such a large lucha promotion, based out of L.A.

SabuFan316
02-27-2005, 07:41 PM
How was Psicosis vs Messiah

Andrew
02-27-2005, 07:42 PM
Supposedly the guy who injured Less Than Perfect was thrown out of the building. Less Than Perfect was at the Pioneer show today and I heard he has some internal bruises in his neck area.

Justin Crast
02-27-2005, 08:03 PM
So which wrestler hurt LTP?

Justin

Scrub
02-27-2005, 08:06 PM
It could have been Shamu Jr. Or someone that looked like Shamu Jr. They never announced names. But I can only assume they were from FMLL, as his tag partner, the fake Darth Maul, had FMLL written on his gear.

Andrew
02-27-2005, 08:20 PM
Shamu wasn't the one who injured LTR, I believe it was Profeta.

Scrub
02-27-2005, 08:34 PM
All I know is that it was not the guy in the Darth Maul mask.

SabuFan316
02-27-2005, 08:39 PM
lol @ someone wearing a Darth Maul mask at a wrestling show.

XPWTVsean
02-27-2005, 10:49 PM
All I know is that it was not the guy in the Darth Maul mask.

Scrub is correct... it was the other dude with all the Shamu gear on, so I would assume it was Shamu Jr.

It looked like LTP was going for a rana and "said luchador" just didn't want to go with it, LTP just went through the motion and spiked himself right on his head. Pretty scary.

Justin Crast
02-27-2005, 11:06 PM
Profeta and Shamu Jr. aren't exactly rookie wrestlers. I wonder why they refused to cooperate and what their peers thing.

Justin

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 01:04 AM
Profeta and Shamu Jr. aren't exactly rookie wrestlers. I wonder why they refused to cooperate and what their peers thing.

Justin


It was profeta, the guy in the flame gear. He was drunk, and had been since 5:00PM and possibily before that. He was thrown out of the building for his own good, Supreme was gonna ruin his shit.

LoneWolf
02-28-2005, 01:20 AM
It was profeta, the guy in the flame gear. He was drunk, and had been since 5:00PM and possibily before that. He was thrown out of the building for his own good, Supreme was gonna ruin his shit.


Profeta Jr or Senior?

Diablo
02-28-2005, 01:52 AM
It was profeta, the guy in the flame gear. He was drunk, and had been since 5:00PM and possibily before that. He was thrown out of the building for his own good, Supreme was gonna ruin his shit.

Was Supreme drunk too ?

Good to hear the 1st FCW event was a success. Best of luck with ALL future endeavors.

(Sorry Desire couldn't be in The Santino Brothers corner... but these things happen. ;) )

JuggalOutkAxt
02-28-2005, 04:04 AM
ahh... gotta love them FCW girls!! LOL.. Scrub, I swear, me and that chick were just sitting in that area because she was cold backstage!! No need to blow shit outta proportion!! hahaha

http://www.dotphoto.com/SAN1/55/BF/47/i55BF474B-C68D-4AC4-825E-505E7993977B.jpg

FCW was loads of fun! great to see Cal Manska again all high with his G-Unit shirt. the place was PACKED.. Patrick Hernandez said that someone told him that there were more people in the GOA for FCW THAN THE DE LA HOYA FIGHT!!

shit, it looked like it packed in more people than ECW Heatwave 2000!!!

Ed Murphy
02-28-2005, 08:36 AM
I am going to estimate that there were at least 5,000 paid. I think there were more than that for sure, in fact I would venture to say that they outdrew the ECW Heatwave PPV. Lower level full, midsection 95%, upperdeck 75%. Don't discount that by who you think they were there to see.

Great job on the show guys.

Supreme was NOT drunk, I believe it was Shamu Jr. who was drunk and did the head dropping. Too bad Desire couldn't be there it would have been great to see her.


I cannot wait to hear when they plan on doing this again. Congratulations!!

shyboy13
02-28-2005, 08:55 AM
Desire was supposed to be there? Why didnt she come?

lizflame
02-28-2005, 02:01 PM
It wasn't Shamu Jr.......it was Profeta Sr.

freekaleek
02-28-2005, 02:11 PM
It wasn't Shamu Jr.......it was Profeta Sr.

Profeta Sr is a faggot. I'm sick of hearing of FMLL guys that injure young guys cause they too lazy or drunk to wanna work.

lizflame
02-28-2005, 03:11 PM
It's not fair to bad mouth all FMLL workers because of what one guy did. 99% of the FMLL guys are hard working well trained and professional, Shamu Jr. included. The fault is usually on the promoters who put the younger less well trained guys in the ring with those guys in the first place. You can't expect those guys to water down their skills just to acommodate some green(er) worker. Their style is pure Lucha and alot of the guys trained locally have been trained differently and don't have the in ring experience of working with guys outside of their training style.

shyboy13
02-28-2005, 03:21 PM
That makes sense Liz; especially since that little guy must have been 14 years old or so. The problem is that, in this particular case, it really didnt appear to be his fault. The head drop was so sloppy that it almost seemed as though the guy in the mask did it on purpose. If he was drunk then that explains it because he looked sloppy/uncooperative/unprofessional throughout the entire match. I am totally against putting minors in the ring with grown PROFESSIONALS but age and inexperience did not seem to be a variable to consider on this night.

lizflame
02-28-2005, 03:32 PM
Well....I didn't see the match but i do believe it's a case of that 1% behaving badly. Because I respect Rocky and FMLL I won't elaborate on that...I just didn't like seeing this one bad incident tarnish the reputation of all the hard working FMLL luchadores.

shyboy13
02-28-2005, 03:39 PM
That makes sense. I'll back you up on this one because I have never in my life seen a wrestler act this way. I doubt there are many wrestlers who are like him. I blame the individual alone. Then again, I have not seen many FMLL wrestlers before.

lizflame
02-28-2005, 03:44 PM
He's an original....that's for sure (thank god!)

freekaleek
02-28-2005, 03:55 PM
It's not fair to bad mouth all FMLL workers because of what one guy did. 99% of the FMLL guys are hard working well trained and professional, Shamu Jr. included. The fault is usually on the promoters who put the younger less well trained guys in the ring with those guys in the first place. You can't expect those guys to water down their skills just to acommodate some green(er) worker. Their style is pure Lucha and alot of the guys trained locally have been trained differently and don't have the in ring experience of working with guys outside of their training style.

Let's see..... I've seen Phoenix Star get concussed twice from sloppy FMLL guys alone. First one I think was Profeta at a FMLL show when Phoenix Star was flipping over his shoudler and Profeta decided to just hold on to him and drop him on his head. The second time was at a AWS show when it was either Piloto or Principe who decided to jump off the top rope and sit on his head. I remember the whole locker room pissed about that one. There were other examples of FMLL guys hurting other workers. There are some good honest FMLL workers, but alot of them have a chip on their shoulders and feel they don't have to work for some reason.

Andrew
02-28-2005, 03:59 PM
I saw the Piloto injuring Phoenix thing. It looked like he ment to hurt Phoenix.

lizflame
02-28-2005, 04:37 PM
Please....just one thing.....get your facts straight if your going to accuse someone of wrong doing. Yes, Profeta might hurt someone accidentally or possibly on purpose.....Shamu Jr. would not likely hurt anyone. Yes...Piloto Suicida can be an ass and might hurt someone accidentally or on purpose.....Principe Unlimited would not likely ever hurt anyone.
I realize that most people on this board are more familiar with the Rev Pro and PWG indy wrestlers but the FMLL guys are not all one entity any more that the Rev Pro guys are. Just like every Mexican is not your gardener. Get it?

lizflame
02-28-2005, 04:46 PM
Also....this goes back to my theory about mixing the seasoned Lucha guys with the cross trained Rev Pro guys. It's like putting cats and dogs in the ring together. Some of the more seasoned cross trained guys can hold their own in that environment but not all of them can. I believe that Phoenix Star can now hold hold own as well as Ariel Express and a few others but any promoter who mixed the two should be very clear with the wrestlers about risky moves. I had a mixture of FMLL and Rev Pro guys at the last Lucha VaVoom and I was clear with both Ron and Rocky that if anyone got hurt that would be the last time that wrestler ever stepped into our ring.

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 05:02 PM
That makes sense Liz; especially since that little guy must have been 14 years old or so. The problem is that, in this particular case, it really didnt appear to be his fault. The head drop was so sloppy that it almost seemed as though the guy in the mask did it on purpose. If he was drunk then that explains it because he looked sloppy/uncooperative/unprofessional throughout the entire match. I am totally against putting minors in the ring with grown PROFESSIONALS but age and inexperience did not seem to be a variable to consider on this night.


First of LTP is 20 Years old.

Second, at least you acknowledge that it wasn't his fault.

Third, he is a professional, I don't know why you'd all cap that like LTP didn't know what he was doing in there. He's still pretty green, but he's never hurt/been hurt because of it. Remember Slick Nick of the young bucks is only 16 years old. Age doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you're a professional.

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 05:11 PM
Also....this goes back to my theory about mixing the seasoned Lucha guys with the cross trained Rev Pro guys. It's like putting cats and dogs in the ring together. Some of the more seasoned cross trained guys can hold their own in that environment but not all of them can. I believe that Phoenix Star can now hold hold own as well as Ariel Express and a few others but any promoter who mixed the two should be very clear with the wrestlers about risky moves. I had a mixture of FMLL and Rev Pro guys at the last Lucha VaVoom and I was clear with both Ron and Rocky that if anyone got hurt that would be the last time that wrestler ever stepped into our ring.


I'm not saying all FMLL guys are bad, I'm a huge fan of lucha and prefere that style personally. I think cross training is a good thing, especially in a match where its all mixed up like that. I love being able to watch two guys go at it american style, then when a tag is made lucha spots are what you see next. If a guy is too green to work a cross trained match, he's most likely too green to work a regular match. The newer guys benefit from working smaller shows, and getting experiance and training even after they start working matches. The cross trained style is perfect for FCW as its a predominantly Lucha crowd.

lizflame
02-28-2005, 05:16 PM
Just to be clear...I'm not defending Profeta or Piloto. I've heard both sides of the Piloto thing.... and also someone that got hurt by Impacto. I don't know what experience the guy who got hurt has. I'm just saying that some of the responsibility is on the promoter as to who he puts in the ring and at be clear with the wrestlers to be more careful when wrestlers are mis-matched in strength and ability.

shyboy13
02-28-2005, 05:17 PM
I have seen the guy up close a few times and he looks around 14 yrs old. If he is 20 then I'm sorry for mistaking his age. However, I cannot apologize for anything else because I said was that it was not his fault. I in no way believe ANYONE deserves to be treated the way he did. I was referring to age and not experienc level when I agreed with Liz. And no, I do not believe little kids should be wrestling with grown ups. You may think it is alright but I dont. Imagine the law suits if one of these children is hurt.

Kids should be playing with their friends and not wrestling with grown professionals.

Masked-Informant
02-28-2005, 05:36 PM
I saw the match, and honestly, it looked like shit. I'm not saying the talent in the ring sucks, I'm simply saying that the talent on that night, in the ring together, put on a shitty match. Whether the FMLL guy dropped his head on purpose or not, we'll never know. And now that we know that LTP is doing fine, that shouldn't be an issue anymore.
In the future, maybe mixing up guys from different feds, that may not have worked together before, may not be the best idea. Guys who work in the same feds or promotions tend to get to know each other, the way they wrestle, their high spots, etc. But when you get guys that may not be too familiar with each other, and stick them in a match together, it's a great way to showcase a shitty match, not to mention get someone hurt (as evident by the dark match being discussed here).
I know the FMLL guys and while they may not all be the greatest luchadors around, they're not all assholes. Some are a bit more retarded than others, but they're mostly good guys who just want a chance to wrestle just like everyone else in the indy scene.
Oh, and as far as other talent wanting to get at the FMLL guys on Saturday... come on, grow up! Be professional. If you're not sure what happened, relax, take a deep breath and figure it out first. Wanting to dropped some dudes head because you're not sure what happened in the ring, or because you think you know, is a nice way to fuck up the mood for all the proffesional talent who showed up to support FCW.

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 05:39 PM
I have seen the guy up close a few times and he looks around 14 yrs old. If he is 20 then I'm sorry for mistaking his age. However, I cannot apologize for anything else because I said was that it was not his fault. I in no way believe ANYONE deserves to be treated the way he did. I was referring to age and not experienc level when I agreed with Liz. And no, I do not believe little kids should be wrestling with grown ups. You may think it is alright but I dont. Imagine the law suits if one of these children is hurt.

Kids should be playing with their friends and not wrestling with grown professionals.


No worries about the age thing, just a correction. I've known the guy for a while, trust me, he's 20. I understand you said it wasn't his fault, that wasn't what I was talking about. But the part about little kids wrestling, not every 16 year old is dumb and immature. Like I already mentioned Slick Nick. He's as professional in the ring as you can get. He never does anything stupid that can get somebody hurt, and wrestling is his life. I've known him since he was 14, he's a really good worker. Its really just a case by case basis. I don't think just any 16 year old can jump in the ring with Kaos and put on a great match. What you're saying can be compared to something like "A luchador dropped LTP on his head, so they must all be bad" When in reality its just that one guy. I really can't name too many minors who are ready to be exposed on that level though. We may as well agree to disagree.

shyboy13
02-28-2005, 05:55 PM
I dont necessarily disagree with you. It is not the childrens maturity that I am worried about. I am worried about the kids' safety! I saw a kid in WPW who could not have been much older than 12 or 13 years old (the one that looks like a little girl--seriously no offense) but he wrestled better than many adults. Yes, an argument can be given that it should be on a case by case basis but even then I have a hard time agreeing. That is where we probably do in fact disagree. Aside from the more important safety and legal issues at hand, it really doesnt "look right" when we see a grown man pummeling a little kid. Also, it doesnt "look right" when we see a grown man selling moves to a 4 ft tall youngster as if that kid could really hurt the man. We all know wrestling is predetermined but that really exposes the business too much. It takes away from the elusion.

I'll drop this subject for now because it is too much of a digression. The important thing is that the guy is ok and for that we can literally thank God.

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 06:08 PM
I dont necessarily disagree with you. It is not the childrens maturity that I am worried about. I am worried about the kids' safety! I saw a kid in WPW who could not have been much older than 12 or 13 years old (the one that looks like a little girl--seriously no offense) but he wrestled better than many adults. Yes, an argument can be given that it should be on a case by case basis but even then I have a hard time agreeing. That is where we probably do in fact disagree. Aside from the more important safety and legal issues at hand, it really doesnt "look right" when we see a grown man pummeling a little kid. Also, it doesnt "look right" when we see a grown man selling moves to a 4 ft tall youngster as if that kid could really hurt the man. We all know wrestling is predetermined but that really exposes the business too much. It takes away from the elusion.

I'll drop this subject for now because it is too much of a digression. The important thing is that the guy is ok and for that we can literally thank God.



HAHA, I know who you're talking about. I was wrestling him that day. Theres no way I would have hurt him. And you'll notice I didn't sell to him. I can agree on the subject dropped part. I forgot all about that match. I had fun that day.

Masked-Informant
02-28-2005, 06:40 PM
I think stating that wreslting is predetermined is exposing the buisness too much....
Just a thought

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 07:39 PM
I think stating that wreslting is predetermined is exposing the buisness too much....
Just a thought


We can Thank Vinny Mac for that one.

Justin Crast
02-28-2005, 09:23 PM
Liz's point is what I was hinting at in my first post. I don't think Profeta Sr. wants to randomly hurt other wrestlers. There was a reason. It doesn't sound like a very good reason, but its a reason none the less. Liz is right on about it being very questionable pairing up two lucha veterans with several green Americans. Even I, someone who is not in the business, realizes how stupid some things are in the wrestling business. I'm lost on why the FCW promoters didn't realize there was a risk with that match.

Justin

Hannible25
02-28-2005, 10:10 PM
Liz's point is what I was hinting at in my first post. I don't think Profeta Sr. wants to randomly hurt other wrestlers. There was a reason. It doesn't sound like a very good reason, but its a reason none the less. Liz is right on about it being very questionable pairing up two lucha veterans with several green Americans. Even I, someone who is not in the business, realizes how stupid some things are in the wrestling business. I'm lost on why the FCW promoters didn't realize there was a risk with that match.

Justin



Well I'll tell you what, you throw a wrestling show, call all the sponsers, book all the matches, make all the phonecalls oversee the production. And then maybe you'll have the right to say whats stupid and what isn't. You're on the outside looking in, and really have no say in the matter. Especially if you've never worked a match, and don't know what its like to work in the ring.

SoCal Tom Walters
02-28-2005, 10:23 PM
Especially if you've never worked a match, and don't know what its like to work in the ring.

2000 called...

Justin Crast
03-01-2005, 12:19 AM
Well I'll tell you what, you throw a wrestling show, call all the sponsers, book all the matches, make all the phonecalls oversee the production. And then maybe you'll have the right to say whats stupid and what isn't. You're on the outside looking in, and really have no say in the matter. Especially if you've never worked a match, and don't know what its like to work in the ring.

Shut up.

Justin

Justin Crast
03-01-2005, 12:26 AM
I think its ironic that the only wrestler outrage in SoCal about the Cubans fucking people up in the ring on purpose years ago was from some veteran luchadors. Full circle!

Justin (who remembers that?)